ONEness

[al-Brunardot]

"ONE" or ONEness is a philosophical concept at the crux of most every major religion; however, few of today's religious followers, and many of today's religious leaders, have little understanding of that which unites most all religions.

Where is there a modern religion that puts the "Golden" Rule and tolerance above all else . . . ?

[The Thinker]

Re: ONEness

What happened to all my previous postings, I hope it wasn't deleted because you strongly disagree with the thinker ideas and views....!?

[al-Brunardot]

Re: ONEness

What happened to all my previous postings, I hope it wasn't deleted because you strongly disagree with the thinker ideas and views....!?

I do disagree with many of your views that are antithetical to ONEness Creed. However, Dialogue21 has always encouraged reasoned debate and expression that does not violate the few posting rules at: Dialogue21 posting rules.

Only the Forum Administrator can regulate Dialogue21 Forum posting rules.

If you have not been banned from posting (usually for a short period of time) you should have little to be concerned with.

[The Thinker]

Re: ONEness

Surah Al-Fatiha
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful (1)

Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds, (2) The Beneficent, the Merciful. (3) Owner of the Day of Judgment, (4) Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help. (5) Show us the straight path, (6) The path of those whom Thou hast favored. Not (the path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray. (7)
The Thinker once again challenge, the brained washed, intolerant, uncivilised, and in many ways mad, and finally, arrogant to apply what you preach, otherwise be civilized and kind stop speaking to those that has Creed {al aquidah} with contemptuous rudeness; and affront, moreover I personally think }EPSO{
The theory is an insult to one's intelligence.

by Dr. Zakir Naik
CONGRATULATING AN ATHEIST

Normally, when I meet an atheist, the first thing I like to do is to congratulate him and say, " My special congratulations to you", because most of the people who believe in God are doing blind belief - he is a Christian, because his father is a Christian; he is a Hindu, because his father is a Hindu; the majority of the people in the world are blindly following the religion of their fathers. An atheist, on the other hand, even though he may belong to a religious family, uses his intellect to deny the existence of God; what ever concept or qualities of God he may have learnt in his religion may not seem to be logical to him.
My Muslim brothers may question me, "Zakir, why are you congratulating an atheist?" The reason that I am congratulating an atheist is because he agrees with the first part of the Shahada i.e. the Islamic Creed, ‘La ilaaha’ - meaning ‘there is no God’. So half my job is already done; now the only part left is ‘il lallah’ i.e. ‘BUT ALLAH’ which I shall do Insha Allah. With others (who are not atheists), I have to first remove from their minds the wrong concept of God they may have and then put the correct concept of one true God.

LOGICAL CONCEPT OF GOD

My first question to the atheist will be: "What is the definition of God?" For a person to say there is no God, he should know what is the meaning of God. If I hold a book and say that ‘this is a pen’, for the opposite person to say, ‘it is not a pen’, he should know what is the definition of a pen, even if he does not know nor is able to recognise or identify the object I am holding in my hand. For him to say this is not a pen, he should at least know what a pen means. Similarly for an atheist to say ‘there is no God’, he should at least know the concept of God. His concept of God would be derived from the surroundings in which he lives. The god that a large number of people worship has got human qualities - therefore he does not believe in such a god. Similarly a Muslim too does not and should not believe in such false gods.
If a non-Muslim believes that Islam is a merciless religion with something to do with terrorism; a religion which does not give rights to women; a religion which contradicts science; in his limited sense that non-Muslim is correct to reject such Islam. The problem is he has a wrong picture of Islam. Even I reject such a false picture of Islam, but at the same time, it becomes my duty as a Muslim to present the correct picture of Islam to that non-Muslim i.e. Islam is a merciful religion, it gives equal rights to the women, it is not incompatible with logic, reason and science; if I present the correct facts about Islam, that non-Muslim may Inshallah accept Islam.
Similarly the atheist rejects the false gods and the duty of every Muslim is to present the correct concept of God which he shall Insha Allah not refuse.
(You may refer to my article, ‘Concept of God in Islam’, for more details)

QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE

The methods of proving the existence of God with usage of the material provided in the ‘Concept of God in Islam’ to an atheist may satisfy some but not all.
Many atheists demand a scientific proof for the existence of God. I agree that today is the age of science and technology. Let us use scientific knowledge to kill two birds with one stone, i.e. to prove the existence of God and simultaneously prove that the Qur’an is a revelation of God.
If a new object or a machine, which no one in the world has ever seen or heard of before, is shown to an atheist or any person and then a question is asked, " Who is the first person who will be able to provide details of the mechanism of this unknown object? After little bit of thinking, he will reply, ‘the creator of that object.’ Some may say ‘the producer’ while others may say ‘the manufacturer.’ What ever answer the person gives, keep it in your mind, the answer will always be either the creator, the producer, the manufacturer or some what of the same meaning, i.e. the person who has made it or created it. Don’t grapple with words, whatever answer he gives, the meaning will be same, therefore accept it.
SCIENTIFIC FACTS MENTIONED IN THE QUR’AN: for details on this subject please refer to my book, ‘THE QUR’AN AND MODERN SCIENCE – COMPATIBLE OR INCOMPATIBLE?

THEORY OF PROBABILITY

In mathematics there is a theory known as ‘Theory of Probability’. If you have two options, out of which one is right, and one is wrong, the chances that you will chose the right one is half, i.e. one out of the two will be correct. You have 50% chances of being correct. Similarly if you toss a coin the chances that your guess will be correct is 50% (1 out of 2) i.e. 1/2. If you toss a coin the second time, the chances that you will be correct in the second toss is again 50% i.e. half. But the chances that you will be correct in both the tosses is half multiplied by half (1/2 x 1/2) which is equal to 1/4 i.e. 50% of 50% which is equal to 25%. If you toss a coin the third time, chances that you will be correct all three times is (1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2) that is 1/8 or 50% of 50% of 50% that is 12½%.
A dice has got six sides. If you throw a dice and guess any number between 1 to 6, the chances that your guess will be correct is 1/6. If you throw the dice the second time, the chances that your guess will be correct in both the throws is (1/6 x 1/6) which is equal to 1/36. If you throw the dice the third time, the chances that all your three guesses are correct is (1/6 x 1/6 x 1/6) is equal to 1/216 that is less than 0.5 %.
Let us apply this theory of probability to the Qur’an, and assume that a person has guessed all the information that is mentioned in the Qur’an which was unknown at that time. Let us discuss the probability of all the guesses being simultaneously correct.
At the time when the Qur’an was revealed, people thought the world was flat, there are several other options for the shape of the earth. It could be triangular, it could be quadrangular, pentagonal, hexagonal, heptagonal, octagonal, spherical, etc. Lets assume there are about 30 different options for the shape of the earth. The Qur’an rightly says it is spherical, if it was a guess the chances of the guess being correct is 1/30.
The light of the moon can be its own light or a reflected light. The Qur’an rightly says it is a reflected light. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/2 and the probability that both the guesses i.e the earth is spherical and the light of the moon is reflected light is 1/30 x 1/2 = 1/60.
Further, the Qur’an also mentions every living thing is made of water. Every living thing can be made up of either wood, stone, copper, aluminum, steel, silver, gold, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, oil, water, cement, concrete, etc. The options are say about 10,000. The Qur’an rightly says that everything is made up of water. If it is a guess, the chances that it will be correct is 1/10,000 and the probability of all the three guesses i.e. the earth is spherical, light of moon is reflected light and everything is created from water being correct is 1/30 x 1/2 x 1/10,000 = 1/60,000 which is equal to about .0017%.

The Qur’an speaks about hundreds of things that were not known to men at the time of its revelation. Only in three options the result is .0017%. I leave it upto you, to work out the probability if all the hundreds of the unknown facts were guesses, the chances of all of them being correct guesses simultaneously and there being not a single wrong guess. It is beyond human capacity to make all correct guesses without a single mistake, which itself is sufficient to prove to a logical person that the origin of the Qur’an is Divine.

CREATOR IS THE AUTHOR OF THE QUR’AN

The only logical answer to the question as to who could have mentioned all these scientific facts 1400 years ago before they were discovered, is exactly the same answer initially given by the atheist or any person, to the question who will be the first person who will be able to tell the mechanism of the unknown object. It is the ‘CREATOR’, the producer, the Manufacturer of the whole universe and its contents. In the English language He is ‘God’, or more appropriate in the Arabic language, ‘ALLAH’.

QUR’AN IS A BOOK OF SIGNS AND NOT SCIENCE

Let me remind you that the Qur’an is not a book of Science, ‘S-C-I-E-N-C-E’ but a book of Signs ‘S-I-G-N-S’ i.e. a book of ayaats. The Qur’an contains more than 6,000 ayaats, i.e. ‘signs’, out of which more than a thousand speak about Science. I am not trying to prove that the Qur’an is the word of God using scientific knowledge as a yard stick because any yardstick is supposed to be more superior than what is being checked or verified. For us Muslims the Qur’an is the Furqan i.e. criteria to judge right from wrong and the ultimate yardstick which is more superior to scientific knowledge.
But for an educated man who is an atheist, scientific knowledge is the ultimate test which he believes in. We do know that science many a times takes ‘U’ turns, therefore I have restricted the examples only to scientific facts which have sufficient proof and evidence and not scientific theories based on assumptions. Using the ultimate yardstick of the atheist, I am trying to prove to him that the Qur’an is the word of God and it contains the scientific knowledge which is his yardstick which was discovered recently, while the Qur’an was revealed 1400 year ago. At the end of the discussion, we both come to the same conclusion that God though superior to science, is not incompatible with it.

SCIENCE IS ELIMINATING MODELS OF GOD BUT NOT GOD

Francis Bacon, the famous philosopher, has rightly said that a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God. Scientists today are eliminating models of God, but they are not eliminating God. If you translate this into Arabic, it is La illaha illal la, There is no god, (god with a small ‘g’ that is fake god) but God (with a capital ‘G’).
Surah Fussilat:
"Soon We will show them our signs in the (farthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?"
[Al-Quran 41:53]

[al-Brunardot]

Re: ONEness

Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds, (2) The Beneficent, the Merciful. (3) Owner of the Day of Judgment, (4) Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.

It is difficult to discuss this post without clarifying some semantics of what is being discussed.

Thus, what is meant be Allah? Is this a form of an athropoidal god that is based entirely upon faith; or possibly a human being that has a historical foundation and may be philosophically logical?

[The Thinker]

Re: ONEness

The Thinker reply to the viewer atd21.com

The viewer replayed, "Thus, what is meant be Allah? Is this a form of an anthropoid god that is based entirely upon faith; or possibly a human being that has a historical foundation and may be philosophically logical?"

I find it very difficult to believe the viewer is not indeed arrogant, moreover if the viewer claim that you are indeed one of the few intelligent scientists ever walk the face of Earth then support your arguments to prove its merits
Surah Al-Anaam
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

Praise be to Allah, Who hath created the heavens and the earth, and hath appointed darkness and light. Yet those who disbelieve ascribe rivals unto their Lord. (1) He it is Who hath created you from clay, and hath decreed a term for you. A term is fixed with Him. Yet still ye doubt! (2) He is Allah in the heavens and in the earth. He knoweth both your secret and your utterance, and He knoweth what ye earn. (3) Never came there unto them a revelation of the revelations of Allah but they did turn away from it. (4) And they denied the truth when it came unto them. But there will come unto them the tidings of that which they used to deride. (5) See they not how many a generation We destroyed before them, whom We had established in the earth more firmly than We have established you, and We shed on them abundant showers from the sky, and made the rivers flow beneath them. Yet we destroyed them for their sins and created after them another generation. (6) Had we sent down unto thee (Muhammad) (actual) writing upon parchment, so that they could feel it with their hands, those who disbelieve would have said: This is naught else than mere magic. (7) They say: Why hath not an angel been sent down unto him? If We sent down an angel, then the matter would be judged; no further time would be allowed them (for reflection). (8) Had we appointed him an angel (Our messenger), We assuredly had made him (as) a man (that he might speak to men); and (thus) obscured for them (the truth) they (now) obscure. (9) Messengers (of Allah) have been derided before thee, but that whereat they scoffed surrounded such of them as did deride. (10) Say (unto the disbelievers): Travel in the land, and see the nature of the consequence for the rejecters! (11) Say: Unto whom belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth? Say: Unto Allah. He hath prescribed for Himself mercy, that He may bring you all together to the Day of Resurrection whereof there is no doubt. Those who ruin their souls will not believe. (12)Unto Him belongeth whatsoever resteth in the night and the day. He is the Hearer, the Knower. (13) Say: Shall I choose for a protecting friend other than Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, Who feedeth and is never fed? Say: I am ordered to be the first to surrender (unto Him). And be not thou (O Muhammad) of the idolaters. (14) Say: I fear if I rebel against my Lord, the retribution of an Awful Day. (15) He from whom (such retribution) is averted on that day, (Allah) hath in truth had mercy on him. That will be the signal triumph. (16)

[al-Brunardot]

Re: ONEness

The viewer replayed, "Thus, what is meant be Allah? Is this a form of an anthropoid god that is based entirely upon faith; or possibly a human being that has a historical foundation and may be philosophically logical?"

I find it very difficult to believe the viewer is not indeed arrogant, moreover if the viewer claim that you are indeed one of the few intelligent scientists ever walk the face of Earth then support your arguments to prove its merits

It is very difficult to reply without your addressing the submitted questions that you have quoted above.

Is the "viewer" that you believe is arrogant al-Brunardot? What is the reason for this arrogance? Is the arrogance you refer to pejorative; or, otherwise?

Where do you find, or what is, the "viewer claim" that you refer to?

What specific arguments are you referring to that require support?

... Allah, Who hath created the heavens and the earth, and hath appointed darkness and light.

It appears this is your definition of Allah. Am I correct? Is your definition a matter of faith . . . or philosophical logic? Is your definition literal and a reference to an anthropoidal phenomenon?

When posting replies on a forum it is easier to follow the logic if it is broken into small comments with backup links, if necessary, rather than reposting large amounts of text from websites that are not credited. This is especially true when the submitter makes no apparent comment concerning the repost or its source.

[The Thinker]

Re: ONEness

Surah Al-Isra
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
Glorified be He Who carried His servant by night from the Inviolable Place of Worship to the Far Distant place of worship the neighborhood whereof We have blessed, that We might show him of Our tokens! Lo! He, only He, is the Hearer, the Seer. (1)

We gave unto Moses the Scripture, and We appointed it a guidance for the children of Israel, saying: Choose no guardian beside Me. (2) (They were) the seed of those whom We carried (in the ship) along with Noah. Lo! he was a grateful slave. (3) And We decreed for the Children of Israel in the Scripture: Ye verily will work corruption in the earth twice, and ye will become great tyrants. (4) So when the time for the first of the two came, We roused against you slaves of Ours of great might who ravaged (your) country, and it was a threat performed. (5)
Thinker want the viewer to bring one phrase, as the verses of Al Qur'an AL Kareem...! please seek the help of the most intelligent few alive...!

[AdminGal]

Re: ONEness

Surah Al-Isra
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
Glorified be He Who carried His servant by night from the Inviolable Place of Worship to the Far Distant place of worship the neighborhood whereof We have blessed, that We might show him of Our tokens! Lo! He, only He, is the Hearer, the Seer. (1)

We gave unto Moses the Scripture, and We appointed it a guidance for the children of Israel, saying: Choose no guardian beside Me. (2) (They were) the seed of those whom We carried (in the ship) along with Noah. Lo! he was a grateful slave. (3) And We decreed for the Children of Israel in the Scripture: Ye verily will work corruption in the earth twice, and ye will become great tyrants. (4) So when the time for the first of the two came, We roused against you slaves of Ours of great might who ravaged (your) country, and it was a threat performed. (5)
Thinker want the viewer to bring one phrase, as the verses of Al Qur'an AL Kareem...! please seek the help of the most intelligent few alive...!

Please do not post text without providing your comments on the subject.

This forum is intended for personal dialogue not reprinting of what you may read. If you must refer to printed material you can provide a link to the source; and, provide your comment concerning why you are providing a link.

Also, other than short quotes, all posted material must be in the English language. Otherwise moderators cannot moderate and will delete your post.

Also, make sure your comments are on topic. If they are not, the comments will be moved to the appropriate forum or deleted.

If all your recent forum posts are not corrected such that they comply with forum rules within 30 days the offending posts will be deleted; and, you may be banned for a period of time to be determined that is commensurate with the intent or seriousness of the violations. You can always petition to have your deleted posts returned if you disagree with a moderator.

You should edit/delete your ad hominem comments that have no place in civil dialogue.

Should you have any questions, you can use a private message to contact a moderator or the administrator.

[AdminGal]

Re: ONEness

You shouldn't dictate to your participants how to...!? You got to stop being arrogant and close minded....
www.onenesscreed.us

Concerning your "dictate" comment: What forum Post and forum Member are you referring to?

Concerning your "arrogant and close minded" comment: Such judgement is subjective and may reflect upon the judge. You must give precise examples of what you find posted that gives cause for such judgement.

General ad hominisms should not be posted. Such comments may be cause for deleting a post or banning the member.

If you believe that a member is abusing the forum rules use a private message to contact the Administrator and the matter will be investigated.

The link you posted above cannot be found on the Internet. Possibly you meant to post: ONEnessCreed.com???

P.S. I note the site is now active on 3-6-2016; though the site is certainly very misleading,

[AdminGal]

Re: ONEness

You shouldn't dictate to your participants how to...!? You got to stop being arrogant and close minded....
www.onenesscreed.us

Please indicate what is "arrogant and close minded...." Or, dictated such that it offends you.

If you continue with forum rules violations and argue with ad hominems you will be banned from posting on the forum. You have been warned many times; yet, you continue with duplicate posts, websites without comment, long text without comment, etc., etc.

To post is a privilege that will often provide many worldwide views for your religiosity. Don't misuse the privilege.

Click this line for comment regarding your misuse of the domain "onenesscreed.us"